First firing

[laranger]

Mart, if it is any concolation to you, they get easier to do now that you have that first one behind you, good luck, now go have a beer.

[danielle_ftv]

I definitely think you did the right thing. Every job that I've had I put 110% of my effort into it. I hate being late and personally I think it's incredibly disrespectful to everyone since they have to pick up your slack normally (or at least that's what I always ended up having to do when co-workers were late).

[mart]

Originally Posted by laranger

Mart, if it is any concolation to you, they get easier to do now that you have that first one behind you, good luck, now go have a beer.

Your right Laranger firings do get easier, had quite day today, one of the labourers has never got on with one of the machinists. Occasionally hurling abuse at each for about a month now. I've tried to get to the bottom of their dislike for each other but with no success and i had warned them both if it goes any further there will be firings. Today i'm outside the mill tallying a set of timber, when i hear a lot of swearing and turn around to find it had come to a head with these two lads and i see the machinist on the ground being punched by the labourer, with no one even attempting to pull off the labourer. So i dash in and grab the labourer around the neck then pulling him and throwing him over the crosscutter bed, which i now was stupid he could had been badly hurt if he had landed badly, but luckly he just sustained a cut to his elbow, guess i was too heavy handed. My temper nearly got the better of me, unfortunately i have a very short fuse and find stopping fights hard to deal with. Anyway i checked the machinist who luckly just had a bloody nose and feeling a little dazed and i got him to go and get checked by the first aider. Then i confronted the labourer and ask him what happened, of cause i got no answer, so i told to him to leave as he doesn't work here anymore and i now have to write a report for head office, which i'll have to hand in on monday. I feel i did my best at trying to get these two lads apart. I do tend to think it was my fault somehow at not keeping a better eye on them. No doubt you guys won't agree with that. Still feel annoyed at todays mess-up.

[captnjack]

You can only do so much Mart.

[rlf01]

Originally Posted by mart

Your right Laranger firings do get easier, had quite day today, one of the labourers has never got on with one of the machinists. Occasionally hurling abuse at each for about a month now. I've tried to get to the bottom of their dislike for each other but with no success and i had warned them both if it goes any further there will be firings. Today i'm outside the mill tallying a set of timber, when i hear a lot of swearing and turn around to find it had come to a head with these two lads and i see the machinist on the ground being punched by the labourer, with no one even attempting to pull off the labourer. So i dash in and grab the labourer around the neck then pulling him and throwing him over the crosscutter bed, which i now was stupid he could had been badly hurt if he had landed badly, but luckly he just sustained a cut to his elbow, guess i was too heavy handed. My temper nearly got the better of me, unfortunately i have a very short fuse and find stopping fights hard to deal with. Anyway i checked the machinist who luckly just had a bloody nose and feeling a little dazed and i got him to go and get checked by the first aider. Then i confronted the labourer and ask him what happened, of cause i got no answer, so i told to him to leave as he doesn't work here anymore and i now have to write a report for head office, which i'll have to hand in on monday. I feel i did my best at trying to get these two lads apart. I do tend to think it was my fault somehow at not keeping a better eye on them. No doubt you guys won't agree with that. Still feel annoyed at todays mess-up.

I have worked in environments where a fight such as the one described would get both individuals fired. You just can't have miscreants like that in the work place. It affects everyone, as you have found. You made the right choice. Now go have a pint or two and let it go. Cricket anyone?

[laranger]

Mart; Sounds like you had a bad day. One thing concerns me though, why didn't the Machinest also get fired? It's not like the laborer was fighting with himself, yet he was the only one who got dismissed.

[mart]

Originally Posted by laranger

Mart; Sounds like you had a bad day. One thing concerns me though, why didn't the Machinest also get fired? It's not like the laborer was fighting with himself, yet he was the only one who got dismissed.

Sorry i should have pointed out, that the person who throws the first punch is instantly fired. Because it is assumed that person would have instigated the fight, it an old firm policy and the machinist will get a written warning. I know that policy of first punch isn't always gonna be right, the firm has always stuck with that rule and it is written in our contracts. So everyone knows that rule. In a way my decision was easy, as in the other lads did tell me the labourer did throw the first punch. Don't ask me how that rule would work if there were no witnesses, because i really wouldn't know how it would stand. I have always thought any fights and both people should be fired and i have mentioned this to my boss in the past, but he instists this rule will stay.

[laranger]

That is an asinine rule. It completely favors the person who taunts. I am much like you in that when I was younger, my fuse was very short also. Many times all it took was an insult and Bam, I threw that first punch. Now that I am a bit older I step back and try nutralize the situation.

[Anoree]

Originally Posted by laranger

That is an asinine rule. It completely favors the person who taunts. I am much like you in that when I was younger, my fuse was very short also. Many times all it took was an insult and Bam, I threw that first punch. Now that I am a bit older I step back and try nutralize the situation.

It penalizes the one going physical, agreed, but I think that's bearable. I think NO taunting justifies starting a physical fight.

I think even when you were young, you stopped fighting when the oponent went down, didn't you?

[Anoree]

Originally Posted by laranger

Mart; Sounds like you had a bad day. One thing concerns me though, why didn't the Machinest also get fired? It's not like the laborer was fighting with himself, yet he was the only one who got dismissed.

I wasn't there, and I might read mart's story wrong, but for me that sounded as if the machinist was the laborer's victim. Should a victim also be punished for a fight? I don't think so. Sometimes it takes only one to start the fight and the other one can't avoid it.

An employee beating up another one already lying on the ground has to be fired immediately, I think. Even more so if he has been warned and doesn't give any explanation. He might also face legal consequences.
If it turns out the other one was provoking the fight, he can still be fired later on.

[mart]

It is a difficult decision to make, like you suggest Anoree as in it may have been the other way around and that the machinist may have goaded the fight. I guess that's why the firm has the first punch rule. It's the easy way out for them, whether it's right or wrong. But i do know this rule goes back to the 50's and i guess it was very different in them days. Has anyone here ever heard of the first punch rule?. I have worked for some builders firms in the 80's who had this rule in force.

[Anoree]

Originally Posted by mart

It is a difficult decision to make, like you suggest Anoree as in it may have been the other way around and that the machinist may have goaded the fight. I guess that's why the firm has the first punch rule. It's the easy way out for them, whether it's right or wrong. But i do know this rule goes back to the 50's and i guess it was very different in them days. Has anyone here ever heard of the first punch rule?. I have worked for some builders firms in the 80's who had this rule in force.

I don't think I know it by that name, but whoever starts a (physical) fight in the company bails himself out of job.

The building industry, as well as wood work and probably a few other brances where hard muscle work is requested, tends to be rougher than the average office job. That spreads to the language used and might lead to "loose fists".
Even more so in the 50's, up to the 80's, when much more had to be done by hand. Rules to keep the workers in order (and the company working) had to be set.